How should my wife handle an engaged admirer and his fiancee?

Question

My wife is currently attending university (final year) and, over the course of our 8 year relationship, she has inadvertently drawn the attention of a number of individuals who seek a relationship with her (she's quite beautiful by all accounts). These have mostly been school or college boys who can be brushed off, but over the last year and a half one of her university peers has become quite forward in his advances, including kissing her while under the influence, driving her home via a scenic detour (including stopping for a chat) and attempting a physical advance on her after dropping her off at home on another occasion. She took to voicing these latter two situations on social media, particularly to their peers, which was enough to make him back off.

Now, these events and his continued advances at university have been enough to make her keep her distance, though he still stays as close as possible, even sitting next to her in lectures and trying to engage her when she ignores him.

The big picture problem is that she is good friends with his fiancee, and they also have 3 children (2 are paternally his), one of whom gets along with our 2.5 year old quite well. Because of this we feel telling her about his advances would be detrimental to their relationship and cause problems for the children - we really don't want the children to be hurt. We also feel if the friendship persists he will view this as my wife being comfortable around him and his advances - she certainly is not.

So, how does my wife maintain the friendship with his fiancee, and the friendship of the children, without him becoming too comfortable or feeling empowered around her.

If it helps we are in Yorkshire, UK. Me and my wife are 23 and 22, respectively and the admirer and his fiancee are 26 and 30, respectively.

Update:

So thank you all so much for your input, I can hardly believe the popularity of this question. So after some deliberation we're going to go ahead with the accepted answer if we see ANY clues to the behaviour continuing. The last concern was the drive home and was months ago.

Many answers and comments took quite the diversion from my actual question, which was simply "How does my wife remain friends with her admirers fiancee?" - the admirer may not have made an advance in months but the negative feelings my wife holds are preventing her from wanting to socialise with the fiancee. I don't need to be told to stick up for my wife nor be advised that she is a "slut" from those who don't know her. I didn't need advice on handling the admirer - I can handle him - it was about his fiancee and I feel that the selected answer provides the best solution.

Answer 1

I would encourage your wife to talk to the fiancee about this.

The person best able to put an end to this is the fiancee. Even if she can not, she needs to know who she's engaged to before she's legally bound to someone who is - at minimum - very much attracted to a younger woman enough to stalk and harass her - and who may some day actually "catch" some other woman who is not as unwilling as your wife and start an affair.

In a Huffington Post article, they asked a psychiatrist and a marriage and family therapist whether you should tell someone that their partner is cheating and they broke it up by relationship type. Their answer for close friend reads:

How about a close friend?

In this case, you’re in a unique position to tell your friend if you come bearing evidence, said Haltzman, though he said it’s best to frame the issues as concerns rather than accusations.

Meyers said you’d be a “covert accomplice” if you didn’t speak up — though be sure to tread lightly.

“If this is coming as a complete surprise, your friend may go into denial, become defensive, be embarrassed or feel devastated and angry, sometimes at you for bursting the bubble,” she said. “Whatever the reaction, be compassionate.”

This is about cheating rather than harassing/stalking but I think it's good advice. Yes, this might temporarily or permanently end your wife's relationship with the fiancee but, as a friend, which do you think is better

• to put up with some amount of sexual advances from him to "protect" the friendship (which may end when she finds out that your wife knew what he was doing and didn't tell her about it)
• to tell her up front as a supporting friend that her husband is acting in an inappropriate way and that you think she should know about it?

I think the latter is better and what I would rather have happen were I in the fiancee's position.

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In addition, or if your wife simply can't tell the fiancee, then she needs to prohibit this man from interacting with her completely, particularly if they end up without anyone else around. His behavior is completely inappropriate and needs to stop immediately.

• She should certainly not allow him to sit next to her at lectures,
• She should not be stuck driving home with him
• She should prevent him from contacting her
• She should do more than ignore him when he speaks to her - she should leave (within reason).
• She should consider reporting him to the university for harassment if he will not cease his pursuit.

If there are a group of people around or she is at his home, she can interact with him as she chooses but she needs to tell him what her boundaries are and you should be there to support her when she does.

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You say you are concerned for the life changing hardships of having these parents split up... this is indeed hard but I hope to belay some of your concern with the following information:

1. you don't know that they will split up.

2. studies have shown that kids from divorced parents with at least one strong parental relationship are pretty much the same as kids from married families.

   Divorcing parents are usually very concerned about the welfare of their children during this troublesome process. Some parents are so worried that they remain in unhappy marriages, believing it will protect their offspring from the trauma of divorce.

   Yet parents who split have reasons for hope. Researchers have found that only a relatively small percentage of children experience serious problems in the wake of divorce or, later, as adults. In this column, we discuss these findings as well as factors that may protect children from the potentially harmful effects of divorce.

3. studies show that children would rather their parents divorce than stay together for the family.

   The poll found that 82% of those aged 14 to 22 who have endured family breakups would prefer their parents to part if they are unhappy. They said it was ultimately better that their parents had divorced, with one of those surveyed adding that children “will often realise, later on, that it was for the best”.

   Asked what advice they would give divorcing parents, another said: “Don’t stay together for a child’s sake, better to divorce than stay together for another few years and divorce on bad terms.”

   “Being exposed to conflict and uncertainty about the future are what’s most damaging for children, not the fact of divorce itself. This means it is essential that parents act responsibly, to shelter their children from adult disagreements and take appropriate action to communicate with their children throughout this process, and make them feel involved in key decisions, such as where they will live after the divorce.

Answer 2

This line says all you need to know.

including kissing her while under the influence

Under UK laws this is sexual harassment and your wife has every reason to report him. A university student is considered by the Job Centre as employed. I cannot see why then they would not be protected in the same way as an employee. Personally I have been in an office many years ago and having the same happen to me. I still regret not having done anything about it. Yes he was married and so am I a fact he was well aware of. You need to support your wife in any decision she ultimately makes. The only other comment I have is, that your wife maybe one of many he has harassed. University's are a lot more clued up nowadays and should have strong complaints procedures in place.

Answer 3

From the sounds of things the fiance already knows, or at least has reason to suspect that her husband-to-be has, to put it as gently as possible, "a wandering eye" And chances are pretty good that if he's made advances toward your wife, he's likely made advances toward other women as well...

With that in mind, protecting their relationship isn't your responsibility. Well, honestly it's not your responsibility in any case, but that information may make you feel a little better about that fact.

As far as putting a stop to his advances, your wife is probably in the best position to do that. Seeing as how he's already been publicly named and shamed for this behavior there's really no need to be all that polite about it either. Something along the lines of:

Look, you know this is inappropriate and that I'm not interested and it needs to stop. Don't touch, don't follow, and don't get your hopes up, because it isn't going to happen. I'm friends with your fiance for goodness sake, so back off.

This should get the message across clearly and without any room for misinterpretation.

As for maintaining a relationship with the fiance and the children, well that kinda depends on the fiance... If she knows and is turning a blind eye, she may be slightly upset about his indiscretions becoming an issue. On the other hand she'll likely appreciate that your wife shut him down. After the dust settles they may become even closer.

Keep in mind that actively trying to "protect" people from the truth often backfires spectacularly... If the fiance doesn't know and finds out later, and finds out that you or your wife were aware and didn't come forward, she'll likely direct some of her hurt feelings toward you both.

Answer 4

The problematic person in question is a threat to your wife. You both need to deal with him from that angle, an on priority.

I'm saying this because he's behaved badly twice and continues on the same line despite being told to stop. It is bordering on criminal behaviour, if not already punishable.

The first priority should be to disengage with the "troll" regardless of the consequences for the other relationships, which are valuable but not so much so that criminal behaviour be tolerated for their sake.

Keeping the other relationships secure as a precondition for all solutions to disengage from the person, restricts you as well as emboldens him, as he too must be aware of your predicaments. If his fiancee comes to know of the situation and leaves him it's not your fault, and can be dealt with separately.

Answer 5

Why does she continue to put herself in these situations?

After an unwanted kiss, absolutely do not take a ride home from that person.

After she does anyway, and it's an unwanted creepy car ride, don't take another ride.

After she does anyway, and it's another creepy car ride with physical contact, STOP HAVING ANY CONTACT WITH THIS PERSON.

She needs to be responsible for herself. She's going to have a rough life if she can't learn to shut down unwanted advances, and cut people out of her interactions that damage your relationship.

You could solve this problem for her by talking to the guy and fiance, but it will happen again. She needs to learn to stick up for herself. That is, if she actually wants to make it stop. Some people just like attention, and then blame the parties they enticed when they're in too deep. If at some point she isn't putting a stop to this you have to question her motives as well. For most, that point has already happened.

Answer 6

My son had a friend whose dad appeared to be coming onto me. I was embarassed but felt he was testing me and seeing how far he could go. I told my husband who told me not to have any interaction with the man. My husband only spoke to him. The man got the point. The next time I saw him, he asked after my husband.

I feel you have to set boundaries and prevent people from crossing them. If several men have had crushes on your wife, perhaps both of you should set boundaries. And if they cross the line, poke your finger in their chest.

Answer 7

I think there is no much room for diplomacy here. Apparently he isn't aware of the risks he's taking. She can directly confront him telling him to stop, or she will report his behaviour to his fiancée.

You are way too close to me. Stop now, do not talk to me, stay away, or I'll tell your fiancée what is going on. We will see what she thinks about it.

It could be also useful if this confrontation happened in the university, in between two lectures, loudly, during the day. The social pressure would prevent a bad reaction from him, and making other students know that she doesn't want him to sit next to her or talk to her could be enough to stop these behaviours. In short, causing a big good scene could protect your wife from the latin lover. :)

Now, two situations come up:

• The latin lover is a normal person. He is now aware of his behaviour, he's scared that your wife will expose him with his fiancée, and everything stop without your wife having to tell anything to his fiancée.

• The latin lover is more of a "molester type". He won't do anything more in the university (he would know he could cause another scene), but he will still harass her outside it.

If the second, she should definitely go and talk to his fiancée. He had his warning and his chance to behave well, he knew what would the consequences of his advances be and he ignored them. Now this is an even more serious reason to talk to her, even if it caused their breakup.

Also, if it turns out that he's a creep, the white knight approach suggested by Beejamin wouldn't hurt. He would know that any further attempt with your wife would cause a reaction from you.

Answer 8

If your wife has already told him "no", and it sounds like she has, there may be little she can say to him to get him to stop.

It's an unpleasant reality in Western culture that women are still treated as second-class citizens or non-persons by an uncomfortably large percentage of people^{1 2} (more by men than by women, but the unconscious bias is still found in women).

A good example of this is that doctors tend to downplay symptoms reported by women^{3 4} - particularly pain^{5 6}. Another is that some men consider women prizes to be won, and interpret rejection as "playing hard to get", re-frame stalking as "romantic persistence", and similar rationalizations for continuing unwanted behavior.^{7 8 9}

That being said, you can't swoop in and act the "white-knight" to scare off potential suitors, as it's disrespectful to your wife and causes all sorts of problems.

What you can do is make sure to keep the lines of communication open, and provide support when asked, by doing what she asks you to do.

My dad gave me this advice when I was in my teens, and it's been a pretty good guideline for me:

There will be an endless line of men looking to steal your relationship with your wife, and until she asks for your help there's nothing you can or should do about it. Once she asks, there's very little you can't or shouldn't do to protect her.

In this case, all you can do is make sure she knows you support her, particularly that her judgment is sound and his behavior is extremely inappropriate (and borderline, if not actually criminal). Trust that she's able to handle it until she asks for help, or is physically rendered unable to ask - he's already resorted to alcohol, arguably the oldest date-rape drug, so he may try something more potent at some point.

If she asks you to step in, let her set the bounds and make the problem go away - within those bounds.

If she gives you free reign, remember you're of no use to anyone in jail on charges of assault and battery, so be smart about it.

1. Tell him off
2. Tell his fiancé (bring proof)
3. Report him to the police (bring more proof), etc.

Don't be the first to get physical, but if he raises his hand against her or you, break it. Don't go any further than you can justify, and stop once he's no longer a threat.

Above all, remember: going through this type of experience can be extremely traumatic, do not make it worse by diminishing her sense agency or personhood.

You are only to provide requested or emergency support to ensure no-one limits or disregards her ability to make decisions about her body. Be an aid to enforce her decisions about what she will and will not permit in regards to her body - don't be yet another person trying to control her.

Keep that it mind and you should be OK.

Answer 9

Your wife's goal is not to be harrassed, while staying friends with the fiancee. Blueeye's reply will achieve the first half nicely while failing with the second. Talking to the wife still has a good chance to destroy the friendship. Not talking to the wife may also destroy the friendship if she ever finds out. So nothing you and your wife can do can guarantee success and achieve all of her goals.

I think what you want to achieve is for the man to back off, while keeping it all quiet. I think the best chance to achieve this is having a talk including you, your wife, and that man. Explaining to him that (a) his behaviour is absolutely not wanted. (b) he has already overstepped the mark to the point where he could be successfully reported for harrassment. (c) that this would likely split him up from his fiancee. (d) that continuing his behaviour means he should not enter any dark alleyways on his own.

And (e) that his best long-term strategy is to talk to his fiancee, explaining that he has a problem, but nothing serious happened and nothing serious would have happened, and to promise to improve.

The risk, that you have to think about: That he doesn't just have serious problems with judgement, but is completely unhinged and becomes an actual danger to your wife. Or that he goes to his fiancee, blames everything on your wife, and destroys her friendship with the fiancee. The first is unlikely. The second risk cannot be avoided.

Answer 10

Avoid the man as much as possible and get on with your lives. If your fiancee is unable to avoid his advances I'd threaten him with the police. In a few months time this will be over and you won't have to deal with the problem. Cut off your ties with his fiancee and their children. That's life, nothing stays the same.

And as a postscript, it's not your responsbility to 'enlighten' his fiancee about his bad behaviour - experience will show you that getting too involved in others' relationships is always a very bad idea, and people ALWAYS blame the messenger.

Answer 11

If we try to see it from the admirers perspective, the real problem reveals itself.

He obviously has the problem to be attracted by other woman (most probably "just" sexually). You, your wife and his fiancée are the "victims" of his problem, but not the reason.

(Edit: To make it more clear: I'm not saying you shouldn't care. I want to reveal the right perspective to face this problem.)

Since he is engaged and he knows that you are married, I'm sure he still loves his fiancée and he doesn't want to be a couple with your wife. Thats why I think the attraction is just sexual. This would become even more probable, the longer he and his fiancée are a couple.

In case I'm right concerning his motives, the best way to handle this situation is making him talk about his problem with his fiancée. It's up to them to find a viable solution for his problem.

Such kind of problems are really hard to solve. From my own experience I can tell you it's always the best way to talk about problems like this and find a solution together (here: the admirer and his fiancée). My girlfriend and I are of a similar age and a happy couple since ~10 years now. We solve every big problem by finding a solution together and it always works out.

Just don't make the mistake to simply blame his behaviour, if you really want to find a good solution for all participants. Rather try to get his problem fixed.

Answer 12

As I see here it's not your problem, but your wife's.

You can't do anything here. If you talk to him as an "alpha male" maybe you make your wife mad, because if she wanted you to talk to him she will have tell you if you can do so, or at least show up.

You two also shouldn't tell this things on social networks, that is childish. If your wife have proofs about this boy flirting with her, show it to his wife. If you don't have anything other than suspicious habits, don't tell anything to his wife because she will get mad at you, and maybe try to put the guilt over your wife.

If you don't have any clear proof about him flirting with your wife, she must keep ignoring him, putting distance between them until he stops. That's it. If this will put distance between you and your wife's friend and her friend asks your wife about the reasons, she always can tell the actions of her husband and say that she doesn't feel confortable with him around, but don't tell her that he is trying to cheat if you don't have any proof. Let your wife's friend decide.

However, if you have the proofs, things like messages or so, you should inmediately tell your wife's friend about it, because she is a friend. If she can understand it it's her problem not yours, maybe if you lose a friend for caring about her and telling her the truth, it's better lost.

On the other hand, you should confirm your sources about the story. Are you sure this is it? Don't you think that maybe there aren't just admirers but one night stands that get overattached? I don't know your real story, but what you tell seems the relate of what your wife told you, not what you saw.

including kissing her while under the influence, driving her home via a scenic detour (including stopping for a chat) and attempting a physical advance on her after dropping her off at home on another occasion

A person that doesn't like someone to flirt on him or her, at the first attemp to get kissed goes away. But a Kiss is a thing of two, as a scenic detour is something that you aren't up to if you are angry. You really think that your wife was angry because he go far than just kissing and staying together to trying to have sex, or is she mad because he kissed? Maybe those past admirers aren't all only admirers. For my experience when a person has people that flirts with them, really doesn't state that clearly that they have a relationship. Just keep an eye open.