Timeline for How can I deal diplomatically with a feminist neighbor who continuously delivers political speeches in private?
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
16 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Oct 5, 2017 at 12:00 | comment | added | Fildor | *shake hand and call it a mutual misunderstanding - no bad vibes. | |
| Oct 5, 2017 at 11:58 | comment | added | MichaelK | @Fildor Ah, I see your point. Well ok, if you want to call Jane D extreme in her interpretation of RF, then I am inclined to... well... at least not disagree with you. Also I have to back away and give you half a point here because Merriam-Webster said the following about extremism: "2. advocacy of extreme measures or views: radicalism". Oopsie... | |
| Oct 5, 2017 at 11:53 | comment | added | Fildor | Ah, then you misunderstood (or I framed it badly). Not RF per se. Initially, I was only refering to Jane D and her personal demonination of RF. Should have made that more clear. Actually my initial comment works with non-extremistic views, too if the person is just really really stubborn. I do acknowledge that RF comes in shades of grey ... | |
| Oct 5, 2017 at 11:40 | comment | added | Fildor | Michael, actually the definition you linked will perfectly do. But let's not spam. Let's agree to disagree. | |
| Oct 4, 2017 at 15:24 | comment | added | English Student | Thanks a lot for helping me put the problem in its proper ideological perspective, @Michael Karnerfors! Which should go a long way towards finding a diplomatic solution. | |
| Oct 4, 2017 at 15:19 | comment | added | MichaelK | @EnglishStudent Do as you wish. In either case: what we've got here is, failure to co... Eh. no, I mean we have difference of ideology and opinion. This is like the difference between a Democrat and a Republican... Tory vs. Labour... political left vs. political right. Conservative vs Liberal vs Authoritarian or any other haphazard kind of labeling you would like to use. They are all still democratic. Feminism comes in many flavours. Just agree that you two are of different branches — or rather: twigs — and the animosity should end. | |
| Oct 4, 2017 at 15:12 | comment | added | English Student | You are very right @Michael Karnerfors but Jane D and many other radical feminists categorically exclude men from the feminist movement. I think that's a big part of my problem, ideologically speaking: after reading these excellent answers and the extensive discussion on this page I am struck by the possibility that Jane D would be more comfortable if I were an outright supporter of the patriarchal establishment (because it would give much more traction to her argumentative momentum) rather than what I really am, which is a passive and paradoxical supporter of radical feminism! | |
| Oct 4, 2017 at 15:05 | comment | added | MichaelK | @EnglishStudent Well I am willing to guess that neither of you think that a sex worker can be a feminist either. Yet there they are. I am not doing this to be snarky or pull a "Hah, gotcha!". This is to place you in her shoes, and show that the discussion about who is a "real" feminist or not is one that is a matter of subjective opinion, and that the only way you can reach a common definition of "feminist"/"feminism" is to make it as broad and inclusive as when defining "democratic"/"democracy" to be "power stems from the people". | |
| Oct 4, 2017 at 15:00 | comment | added | English Student | "So you are both radical feminists with only a slight flavour-difference. How did you manage to get into huge angry debates about that?!" -- that's the whole irony of the situation, @Michael Karnerfors: but Jane D is absolutely certain that no man can be any sort of feminist, which is the crux of the problem here. | |
| Oct 4, 2017 at 14:56 | comment | added | MichaelK | @Fildor No that is not at all debatable. There is nothing extremist about that, not unless you in your mind invent a different definition of Radical Feminism and get everyone else to agree to it. | |
| Oct 4, 2017 at 14:54 | comment | added | MichaelK | @EnglishStudent So you are both radical feminists with only a slight flavour-difference. How did you manage to get into huge angry debates about that?! :-) Personally I am of the opinion that Radical Feminism is inherently sexist and objectifying in that individuals are assigned status as Oppressor and Victim solely based on their gender with no regard for individual experience, position in society, wealth, abilities and so on. It is my opinion RF is good for places where inequality is inherent to the system (see for instance Saudi Arabia) but that we need less blunt tools elsewhere. | |
| Oct 4, 2017 at 14:51 | comment | added | Fildor | "Radical Feminism is not an extremist view." - That's debatable, but not here and now. The least we can tell from OP's description is that Jane D is as close to an (not yet violent) extremist as you probably get. | |
| Oct 4, 2017 at 14:48 | comment | added | MichaelK | @Fildor Radical Feminism is not an extremist view. Also OP just described themselves as a radical feminist so... | |
| Oct 4, 2017 at 14:42 | comment | added | Fildor | You have never actually had a discussion with a radical [put in any kind of worldview], did you? They won't accept turning the discussion into one about opinion because they see themselves stating unfalsifiable facts. That not only goes for feminism but other extremist worldviews, too. TL;DR: I doubt it will work. | |
| Oct 4, 2017 at 13:56 | comment | added | English Student | That's a very reasonable approach, thanks @Michael Karnerfors! In fact I agree with Jane D on the essential assumptions of radical feminism, but disagree with the 'you men' part of her argument and her opinion that no men can support women's struggles. | |
| Oct 4, 2017 at 13:53 | history | answered | MichaelK | CC BY-SA 3.0 |