Explain why I won't refine the question and how I think this is not a complete duplicate

Source Link

edited Mar 28, 2018 at 10:38

565
1
4
5

Source is this twitter thread: https://twitter.com/MalwareJake/status/976848126987374593

Excerpt:

She said that the guy who appeared to be the unofficial group leader started talking about one of the (very few) female conference speakers like a piece of meat. The other guys jumped in and described the many (specifics were very shocking) things they would do to her. One even made rape "jokes" (which are obviously NEVER okay).

When in such company, I would just leave the conversation, after taking in how repulsive this kind of attitude is. But that doesn't make them understand that this is just not ok. So the question is: how to be assertive in these circumstances.

This 'unofficial group leader' seems to express such things to (re)establish his leadership position. At that point, the others in the group are already determined to be no match for him (at least in the leaders' mind).

One way of addressing him, could be: "Now I see how you are still single" or "wow, your girlfriend must be really happy with you" (depending on the situation). Although that's just passive aggressive, and will not result in a constructive "hey, this way you are talking reveals that you are actually not respecting women at all, you should revise how you look at women."

What is the real reason this guy is acting this way? (I suppose I have some idea about it, but please elaborate)
Given that we know or assume to understand the reason why he talks this way, how to best address this guy and/or group, to get them to understand what they are doing?

Edit: adding context.

This is something that often happens at tech conferences, but of course it happens everywhere (I suppose) when there's too many men and little or no women and drinks. There's this idea that you can't have good looks and be smart at the same time.

I've seen it happen in Belgium (Europe). My biggest concern is not detoxing tech events, but I'd like to see this kind of behaviour disappear entirely. It just shows a total disrespect for women in general, and it's a hard idea to get across, especially towards men with lower moral standards.

Edit: I'm asking from the viewpoint for someone in the group. Maybe the better question is: what can someone in the group (obviously not the alpha guy) do, to make sure the rest of the group isn't tricked into thinking this is the proper way to talk about women?

(If anyone has better tag suggestions, I'm a bit at a loss.)

Edit: I'm going to refrain from refining the question. I like how people interpreted it in different ways, and there are a lot very good opinions on these interpretations. Changing the question could mess up other people's answers for no good reason.

I don't see it as a duplicate of the linked question as this is a group going wrong thing, which is harder to counter than an individual making an inappropriate comment. But I agree it covers a lot of ground and probably overlaps with several other questions.

Thanks everyone!

Source is this twitter thread: https://twitter.com/MalwareJake/status/976848126987374593

Excerpt:

She said that the guy who appeared to be the unofficial group leader started talking about one of the (very few) female conference speakers like a piece of meat. The other guys jumped in and described the many (specifics were very shocking) things they would do to her. One even made rape "jokes" (which are obviously NEVER okay).

When in such company, I would just leave the conversation, after taking in how repulsive this kind of attitude is. But that doesn't make them understand that this is just not ok. So the question is: how to be assertive in these circumstances.

This 'unofficial group leader' seems to express such things to (re)establish his leadership position. At that point, the others in the group are already determined to be no match for him (at least in the leaders' mind).

One way of addressing him, could be: "Now I see how you are still single" or "wow, your girlfriend must be really happy with you" (depending on the situation). Although that's just passive aggressive, and will not result in a constructive "hey, this way you are talking reveals that you are actually not respecting women at all, you should revise how you look at women."

What is the real reason this guy is acting this way? (I suppose I have some idea about it, but please elaborate)
Given that we know or assume to understand the reason why he talks this way, how to best address this guy and/or group, to get them to understand what they are doing?

Edit: adding context.

This is something that often happens at tech conferences, but of course it happens everywhere (I suppose) when there's too many men and little or no women and drinks. There's this idea that you can't have good looks and be smart at the same time.

I've seen it happen in Belgium (Europe). My biggest concern is not detoxing tech events, but I'd like to see this kind of behaviour disappear entirely. It just shows a total disrespect for women in general, and it's a hard idea to get across, especially towards men with lower moral standards.

Edit: I'm asking from the viewpoint for someone in the group. Maybe the better question is: what can someone in the group (obviously not the alpha guy) do, to make sure the rest of the group isn't tricked into thinking this is the proper way to talk about women?

(If anyone has better tag suggestions, I'm a bit at a loss.)

Source is this twitter thread: https://twitter.com/MalwareJake/status/976848126987374593

Excerpt:

She said that the guy who appeared to be the unofficial group leader started talking about one of the (very few) female conference speakers like a piece of meat. The other guys jumped in and described the many (specifics were very shocking) things they would do to her. One even made rape "jokes" (which are obviously NEVER okay).

When in such company, I would just leave the conversation, after taking in how repulsive this kind of attitude is. But that doesn't make them understand that this is just not ok. So the question is: how to be assertive in these circumstances.

This 'unofficial group leader' seems to express such things to (re)establish his leadership position. At that point, the others in the group are already determined to be no match for him (at least in the leaders' mind).

One way of addressing him, could be: "Now I see how you are still single" or "wow, your girlfriend must be really happy with you" (depending on the situation). Although that's just passive aggressive, and will not result in a constructive "hey, this way you are talking reveals that you are actually not respecting women at all, you should revise how you look at women."

What is the real reason this guy is acting this way? (I suppose I have some idea about it, but please elaborate)
Given that we know or assume to understand the reason why he talks this way, how to best address this guy and/or group, to get them to understand what they are doing?

Edit: adding context.

This is something that often happens at tech conferences, but of course it happens everywhere (I suppose) when there's too many men and little or no women and drinks. There's this idea that you can't have good looks and be smart at the same time.

I've seen it happen in Belgium (Europe). My biggest concern is not detoxing tech events, but I'd like to see this kind of behaviour disappear entirely. It just shows a total disrespect for women in general, and it's a hard idea to get across, especially towards men with lower moral standards.

Edit: I'm asking from the viewpoint for someone in the group. Maybe the better question is: what can someone in the group (obviously not the alpha guy) do, to make sure the rest of the group isn't tricked into thinking this is the proper way to talk about women?

(If anyone has better tag suggestions, I'm a bit at a loss.)

Edit: I'm going to refrain from refining the question. I like how people interpreted it in different ways, and there are a lot very good opinions on these interpretations. Changing the question could mess up other people's answers for no good reason.

I don't see it as a duplicate of the linked question as this is a group going wrong thing, which is harder to counter than an individual making an inappropriate comment. But I agree it covers a lot of ground and probably overlaps with several other questions.

Thanks everyone!